As all of these summits do, we eventually got to China, with Albanese asked what he meant when he told the ASEAN summit participants that ‘none of us are spectators’ and Anwar asked if ‘friends fire flares’ in relation to China’s recent response to an Australian plane in the South China Sea.

Can I say in terms of us not being spectators, what that means is that we’re not observers. We help create our own future and create history and that engagement, we’re not passive, we’re participants. And it’s a different perspective that you have. Whereas you know people in the media are observers and your job is to commentate, our job is to think about how we can shape the change that’s occurring.

One of the issues that we have discussed today, for example, is the impact of artificial intelligence, new technology. This is a challenge of leaders globally that we have. This is going to have an impact. It’s having impact in the debate in Australia about, you know, cultural appropriation, including appropriation of media, intellectual property, the work that journalists do. Is that fair game just for someone to grab and not pay a fee for it? We don’t think that is, which is why we have the Media Bargaining Code that we are trying to advance. So it is a matter of our perspective trying to look at what are the challenges and what’s the role of government in shaping the response to those challenges. And somehow sometimes anticipating and helping to create the future, if you like, rather than just responding after the event.

Anwar:

Once we establish the facts, we will raise. Engagement does not mean condoning whatever exercises. And the Chinese know that in my private exchanges with the President of China, and I know we represent a very small country and a relatively small economy. But still we represent a nation and we have the right to express because we need the wisdom not to be seen, to be unnecessarily combative. But we should bring it up once it is established, and we will seriously if it is established. I will do my part. Because I think it’s important for all of us to express whether publicly or privately or whatever form, our concern that these region must remain free. And the policy of centrality does not mean that we don’t see any centrality means we do express, and we have centrality. But we do engage with the issues of Gaza or Russia, Ukraine.